Menopause is big business, valued at NZ$29 billion in 2024. So it’s no surprise that women, who previously had little in the way of resources or expertise to support them through this period of their life, are now completely swamped in products, content creators hawking products, and information and misinformation coming at them faster than their foggy brains can process. 

Two wonderful voices that cut through the noise in Aotearoa are Niki Bezzant and Petra Bagust. Niki’s bestselling 2022 book This Changes Everything includes in depth interviews with health experts and a vast array of resources, and Petra Bagust has interviewed many wāhine on her acclaimed Grey Areas podcast, where her frank style opens up conversations that may have previously been considered taboo.

In April Niki and Petra are hitting the road together on the Hot Mess Tour, travelling Aotearoa to impart wisdom, compassion and companionship, bringing these open conversations to a live audience.

We caught up with them to find out what the audience can expect, and discovered that they’re both keen to change the narrative around how menopause is being discussed.

Rebecca: There is lots of talk about menopause these days but in terms of actual advice, it seems it’s more difficult to navigate than ever – given all the capitalism and consumerism that’s taken over conversations around it. Where is a good place for someone to start, when they think they may be beginning perimenopause?

Petra: I'm going to suggest that the difficulty has shifted. So being isolated, thinking that you're going crazy and or have cancer, dementia, might need to leave your marriage, your job, because something is going on inside your body and brain that you do not have language or ideas or support for. That's a difficulty. And then having the difficulty of, ‘oh my goodness, there's too much information, where do I start’ – that is a different challenge.

I think it's a better challenge, but you are absolutely right, capitalism has jumped on board and is now selling, selling, selling to women our age. But we still have agency inside of that to say, taihoa [hold up], I'm going to think and regroup.

Niki: Capitalism has entered the chat on menopause for sure. I’ve seen this before, in the world of nutrition; it’s not new to me. What is new is the speed at which it happened. 

I started researching and writing about menopause five years ago and there was nothing – it’s astonishing how much the momentum has grown just in that time.

My advice is to use your discernment. We, Gen X, are pretty good at detecting bullshit. Especially on social media – use your discernment and first of all, ask yourself, is this person offering me advice or is this person trying to sell me something? If they are, that's a red flag.

Then look for credible sources. I'm biased, but I think my work is pretty credible so if in doubt, go to the library and get my book for a start. It's also worth looking at the official sources of information on menopause. Places like the International Menopause Society, the Australasian Menopause Society. Don't start with a person on the internet just sharing what works for them.

Rebecca: As you mentioned Petra, as a woman it feels like we could constantly be playing a game of, ‘is it modern life, old age, am I going mad or is it perimenopause’. I think there are over 50 different side effects right? Some are extremely niche. So where do we start?

Petra: I would start by de-pathologising menopause. It's a life transition. I’m trying to take words like ‘symptom’ out of my vocabulary, and use words like ‘sign’. It’s a life transition that can take 10 years. What's on the other side of it? What are the things I need to support and manage it? And what are the things I can be like, ‘yes, this is a doorway into giving less fucks about what somebody else thinks about me’. There are massive positives for me. So I go back to curiosity.

Niki: I agree. It's not an illness, it's not a disability, it's not an impairment. You're not losing something. We are actually gaining something. It's a transition. It's just like puberty. There’s a loss that some women mourn, rightly. But it is a transition in our life and that next stage is exciting. I try to get people to take it as an opportunity to think about how they want that next part to be - what do you want for your next [life] stage?

Petra: And even if our curiosity can be non-binary rather than, ‘is this menopause or not’. What if it’s 15% stress, 5% global anxiety, 25% fatigue, brain fog, sore boobs. And this other part is actually ‘I haven't put up healthy boundaries at work or at home’. What if we've got this beautiful collection of our own humanity and we can get curious about it in a way that gives us some clarity? 

Then if you’ve got brain fog, sore boobs and your sleep has gone to pot you can take some action but you’re not expecting a supplement or lifestyle change to fix everything in the whole world. Maybe there are other things I need to do to support myself through this change. 

Let’s reframe things. Who am I in this season when I'm not activated by oestrogen and all sorts of other drivers to raise my brood and care for every soul in the world? I was told there is nothing good in this season and I was like, that's not good enough. I am not going to live out that narrative. Women have a chance to orient themselves towards menopause as much, much more than a problem to be fixed. Let's not make ourselves a problem to be fixed.

Rebecca: Here’s a niche question. I'm in a few group chats with women who’ve had cancer and we aren’t candidates for HRT, obviously. What do you think is a good place to start for women who have had cancer?

I went through (chemically induced) menopause the first time in 2005 and back then, black cohosh was the only thing anyone told me to look at. Now I'm in natural perimenopause and all I’m hearing from peers is ‘HRT changed my life’. What do you say to women like us?

Niki: It distresses me, this emerging narrative that HRT is amazing and everyone should be on it. I think HRT is amazing [Niki is on HRT] and it can be life-changing for some women who are really struggling. 

But HRT is just one piece of the puzzle and I really want women, especially cancer survivors, to know that if you are not able to take it, you are not missing out on future health benefits or some magical potion of youth. It's just one of the things we have in our big toolbox full of things we can do to help ourselves through this transition.

There's lots of other things we can look at, including effective lifestyle changes like diet, exercise, sleep, stress management - the fundamentals of health for people of any age goes double in perimenopause and menopause. 

Petra: I agree with Nikki. As someone who's not on HRT, I'm hearing the conversation on the beach over summer; you're missing out on bone health, skin health, whatever it is. There are one in four to five women, I believe the statistics are, who will sail through menopause and notice nothing. Then there are two in four - so 50% of us - who will have some signs and challenges physically and potentially psychologically. 

Then there are 25% of women who suffer. And for them it can be debilitating in terms of their functionality and their life. So acknowledging that cohort and how hard it is for them, if we’re saying that everybody has to go on hormone therapy to be okay, that means humanity has had a complete F- up and we aren't designed right. That every single soul, AKA, all the people in the world who have no access to this medication ought to be on it and are screwed.

It’s easy to get whipped up into a frenzy when you've had a choice taken away from you. That is pain, that is psychological and emotional pain because you don't get to choose. That requires even more curiosity and self-compassion than the average wahine. It's like, so this decision in essence currently has been made for me. What if there's like a complete silver lining to this?

When I intersect with a challenge, it requires me to slow down and pay attention and take supportive action. I am being kinder and healthier than I've ever been because my body is talking to me in a way that requires my tension.

Rebecca: Offense is not intended here – but a lot of the people I see talking about menopause, myself included, are white women. What can other cultures bring to these conversations, and what would you say to someone that doesn't see themselves or their experiences reflected?

Niki: I would love to see more diversity in the voices around menopause. We can learn a lot from other cultures. Te ao Māori offers us a really valuable perspective on this transition because it's not seen as a loss. It is seen as a gain, and I love that so much.

Petra: In terms of even the reo word for it, te ruahinetanga, it’s the second womanhood in essence, like ‘woman hooding’. Tanga is an action, so it’s a process almost.

When we look at things like menopause in isolation, we are Pākeha women living in New Zealand right now dealing with this physical transition. And it hits us slightly differently to how it will hit other people and other countries and potentially other cultures within New Zealand. And we'll have sets and subsets and crossovers. But if we were able to orient ourselves towards the wisdom of the people we intersect with and live with, there's nothing but gain there. Te ao Māori respecting kaumātua, elders, they don't call them elderly. They're not measured on economic success as their value. So if we see our wisdom years as tremendously valuable, we are inviting ourselves and everybody around us into that. 

And absolutely we want more voices. I've talked to Miriama Kamo and Michele Wilson amongst numerous others about this. There's probably an honesty in the fact that we are talking to our peers; we shouldn't be the only voice in the conversation.

Rebecca: Any advice on how people can advocate for themselves? It can be quite a challenge – you go through life without any health problems (hopefully) then you hit perimenopause and everything kind of unravels and goes downhill. If you go to your GP and you don't feel like you're being taken seriously, what advice can you give people who suddenly need to start advocating for themselves without any experience?

Niki: I don't want to bag on GPs because they have such a hard job to do and they've got to keep up with everything; it’s understandable if they're not quite on top of the menopause conversation. But if you’re struggling and you've managed to get yourself to the doctor, you have 15 minutes to get through everything and you’re falling apart, that's really tough.

I encourage asking the question of your doctor, ‘is it reasonable for me to have a trial of HRT’. Just asking can be one way to approach it. If you think that you're not being heard – and in my research, nearly half the women who sought help on menopause didn't feel they were getting the help they needed – trying to find another doctor might be the only answer.

Petra: In terms of your advocacy question, there are now Facebook groups. There are resources like Niki's book, my podcast. Where can I build my advocacy muscle? Can we advocate for ourselves within our friend groups? Can we advocate for ourselves within our whānau? Can we advocate for ourselves with professionals? Perhaps write down what's happening, take your journal to the doctor.

Niki: That's a really good idea about the list. You are the expert in your own body; keeping a record of what’s happening and putting the pieces together for a health professional can be useful.

Petra: Have conversations sooner rather than waiting until you're desperate. When you’re desperate and somebody doesn't pay heed, it's like the world is ending. But if you go look, I'm curious about this. Maybe I’ll do a midlife health check; request some bloods and find out what my iron levels are and get some markers that are present you looking after future you.

I literally went to my doctor and said, menopause is coming and I'd like to partner with you on my future health. 

Niki: You don't have to be a complete mess before you are allowed to seek help with your menopause symptoms.

The Hot Mess Tour is in Christchurch on April 4, Queenstown on April 5, Rotorua on April 8 and Auckland on April 9 and 10. Tickets are available here.